----- Original Message -----

From: Colin 'SkeptiCol' Frewin

To: [address removed]

Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:21 AM

Subject: RE: [Auckland-Skeptics-in-the-Pub] It's almost here...

People, the ball is officially rolling.... can't wait to meet you all tomorrow!

 

SkeptiCol

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From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Mark Hughes
Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 8:55 a.m.
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [Auckland-Skeptics-in-the-Pub] It's almost here...

Well you don?t have be dumb to do stupid things, smart people do stupid things all the time.

 The not guilty verdict and light sentence in the Moses case does have the appearance on the outside that is was race driven, only the judge could answer that question.

There is a reluctance to criticize anything Maori for fear of being branded racist. The race argument is a strawman that we have seen work many times, but the problem in the Moses case is the mystical thinking not Maoridom.

 I understand the Moses exorcism was based  more on Christian practices rather than Maori ones. Religion seems to dodge the bullet of blame in such cases. Churches speak out about South Park or Guardasil, but say nothing when somebody dies as a result of people believing in the very magic that they preach every Sunday. The ?harmless? belief in mainstream religion creates an environment for harm to come to the innocent, and not just at the extremes. Look at Smokin Joe Ratzinger touring the world telling HIV riddled countries not to use condoms, that guy is more dangerous than Osama Bin Laden, and he gets away with it.

As Skeptics I think it?s our responsibility to speak out about such things. Superstition or alternative medicine do real harm and we have to speak up, otherwise we are watching the eggs roll off the table and doing nothing to stop them falling. We may be able to stop more hammers getting into the bag!  

Mark Hughes

  

On 8/09/2009, at 11:27 PM, John Mackie wrote:

Stephen et al,

 

My understanding of the problem of people being injured or killed during curse lifting ceremonies is not that the practitioners are Maori but that they are profoundly stupid.

 

I really don't know how or why we need to explain to apparently functional adults that  flooding the mouth and nose of a supine and restrained subject with water is unlikely to be beneficial to their mental or physical  health.

 

Perhaps being as dumb as a bag of hammers is some sort of legal defence regardless of one's breeding.

 

John Mackie

----- Original Message -----

From: Stephen

To: [address removed]

Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:52 PM

Subject: Re: [Auckland-Skeptics-in-the-Pub] It's almost here...

Hi team

There are a few burning topics that I would like to hear discussed.  They are:

1. The 2010 Atheist Global Convention that will be held in Melbourne, on 12-14 March 2010.  The theme is "The Rise of Atheism". Speakers include Richard Dawkins, PZ Myers, as well as our guest, Kylie Sturgess. Anyone interested in attending? How do people feel about seeing what is required to organise this event, with the aim of organising an Atheist Global Convention in Auckland in a few year's time?

2. How do people feel about an Auckland Atheist Bus campaign?

3. Janet Moses died in October 2007 during a Makutu curse lifting ritual (which was pretty similar to waterboarding, a generally recognised form of torture). Ms Moses drowned and a 14-year-old girl's eyes were injured as people picked at the demons they saw in them.  The five accused all avoided jail with community detention and community work sentences - but I did not hear anyone say anything against the actual superstition involved, which I think was seen as a mitigating factor at sentencing. Should we speak up in these situations, or are cultural sensitivities just too great?

Looking forward to a very interesting meeting. And, of course, a beer.

Cheers,
Stephen Minhinnick





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