I agree that as Skeptics we should be challenging indefensible beliefs and encouraging people to question and reason critically etc rather than promoting atheism/attacking certain religions, cultures etc directly.

Also, another topic that might bear mentioning at some upcoming discussions might be the MEDIA - my own particular bug-bear.  Not only do they contribute to the great plethora of misinformation out there, but their coverage of certain belief-systems/pseudo-sciences and efforts at "balance" (ie giving some moron the same amount of airtime with a qualified expert, so as to imply a genuine debate when one does not exist) continue to grate... e.g. did anyone see Campbell Live last night where there was a segment on some arrogant toss who claimed he was an expert in the "science" of "graphology" - identifying one's personality traits by an examination of their handwriting??!!   Everything he did and said was the same old crap cold-reading type techniques used by your average psychic.  I laughed out loud when he claimed that just by changing one's handwriting, one could change one's life!!!   Gee, I must practice my cursive I'm sure I would be a happier girl...

And speaking of media and misinformation... I will bring with me the actual sentencing decision of Justice Simon France re Janet Moses, which I printed for you all yesterday.  Don't base your opinions about this case on what you've seen in the media, they are generally full of it.

Look forward to meeting some of you tomorrow.

Jenni Smith

Colm Carraher wrote:

Hi all,   we do not have to promote atheism directly to point out how ridiculous it is to use it as an excuse for killing someone,   When we see religious views or practices causing injury or death then it is our responsibility as humans not just as skeptics or atheists to rally against it.   Promoting scinece and rational thought will eventually lead people to atheism.   Check out the NZ skeptics in the pub blog where the makutu case was discussed, among other things   http://skepticsinthepub.net.nz/   And if you would like to start blogging yourself please join up.   Cheers   Colm --- On Wed, 9/9/09, Maureen Stroud <[address removed]> wrote: From: Maureen Stroud <[address removed]> Subject: Re: [Auckland-Skeptics-in-the-Pub] It's almost here... To: [address removed] Received: Wednesday, 9 September, 2009, 11:15 AM Hi   I can't stand it when religious friends or strangers try to inflict their god on me. So, I  think we should avoid attacking religious views or promoting atheism directly. I believe we should be encouraging and challenging people to  reason, question and think more critically so that they can draw their own conclusions , based on science and rational thought.   M  ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin 'SkeptiCol' Frewin To: [address removed] Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [Auckland-Skeptics-in-the-Pub] It's almost here... People, the ball is officially rolling.... can't wait to meet you all tomorrow!   SkeptiCol From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Mark Hughes Sent: Wednesday, 9 September 2009 8:55 a.m. To: [address removed] Subject: Re: [Auckland-Skeptics-in-the-Pub] It's almost here... Well you don?t have be dumb to do stupid things, smart people do stupid things all the time.  The not guilty verdict and light sentence in the Moses case does have the appearance on the outside that is was race driven, only the judge could answer that question. There is a reluctance to criticize anything Maori for fear of being branded racist. The race argument is a strawman that we have seen work many times, but the problem in the Moses case is the mystical thinking not Maoridom.  I understand the Moses exorcism was based  more on Christian practices rather than Maori ones. Religion seems to dodge the bullet of blame in such cases. Churches speak out about South Park or Guardasil, but say nothing when somebody dies as a result of people believing in the very magic that they preach every Sunday. The ?harmless? belief in mainstream religion creates an environment for harm to come to the innocent, and not just at the extremes. Look at Smokin Joe Ratzinger touring the world telling HIV riddled countries not to use condoms, that guy is more dangerous than Osama Bin Laden, and he gets away with it. As Skeptics I think it?s our responsibility to speak out about such things. Superstition or alternative medicine do real harm and we have to speak up, otherwise we are watching the eggs roll off the table and doing nothing to stop them falling. We may be able to stop more hammers getting into the bag!   Mark Hughes    On 8/09/2009, at 11:27 PM, John Mackie wrote: Stephen et al,   My understanding of the problem of people being injured or killed during curse lifting ceremonies is not that the practitioners are Maori but that they are profoundly stupid.   I really don't know how or why we need to explain to apparently functional adults that  flooding the mouth and nose of a supine and restrained subject with water is unlikely to be beneficial to their mental or physical  health.   Perhaps being as dumb as a bag of hammers is some sort of legal defence regardless of one's breeding.   John Mackie ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen To: [address removed] Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:52 PM Subject: Re: [Auckland-Skeptics-in-the-Pub] It's almost here... Hi team There are a few burning topics that I would like to hear discussed.  They are: 1. The 2010 Atheist Global Convention that will be held in Melbourne, on 12-14 March 2010.  The theme is "The Rise of Atheism". Speakers include Richard Dawkins, PZ Myers, as well as our guest, Kylie Sturgess. Anyone interested in attending? How do people feel about seeing what is required to organise this event, with the aim of organising an Atheist Global Convention in Auckland in a few year's time? 2. How do people feel about an Auckland Atheist Bus campaign? 3. Janet Moses died in October 2007 during a Makutu curse lifting ritual (which was pretty similar to waterboarding, a generally recognised form of torture). Ms Moses drowned and a 14-year-old girl's eyes were injured as people picked at the demons they saw in them.  The five accused all avoided jail with community detention and community work sentences - but I did not hear anyone say anything against the actual superstition involved, which I think was seen as a mitigating factor at sentencing. Should we speak up in these situations, or are cultural sensitivities just too great? Looking forward to a very interesting meeting. And, of course, a beer. Cheers, Stephen Minhinnick -- Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed]) This message was sent by Stephen ([address removed]) from Auckland Skeptics in the Pub. To learn more about Stephen, visit his/her member profile To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here Meetup Support: [address removed] 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com  Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.79/2348 - Release Date: 09/05/09 17:50:00 -- Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed]) This message was sent by John Mackie ([address removed]) from Auckland Skeptics in the Pub. To learn more about John Mackie, visit his/her member profile To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here Meetup Support: [address removed] 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA -- Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed]) This message was sent by Mark Hughes ([address removed]) from Auckland Skeptics in the Pub. To learn more about Mark Hughes, visit his/her member profile To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here Meetup Support: [address removed] 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA -- Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed]) This message was sent by Colin 'SkeptiCol' Frewin ([address removed]) from Auckland Skeptics in the Pub. To learn more about Colin 'SkeptiCol' Frewin, visit his/her member profile To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here Meetup Support: [address removed] 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA -- Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([address removed]) This message was sent by Maureen Stroud ([address removed]) from Auckland Skeptics in the Pub. To learn more about Maureen Stroud, visit his/her member profile To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here Meetup Support: [address removed] 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA

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